Streitmacht

Sorry i am posting in english, but i have zero knowledge of German!Anyway...

Hey everyone, new user here! As of the last 2 weeks, i been modifying Peter's Roma Victor 3.1 (with 3.2 patch) equipment files to attempt to present more of the italian units, some of which replace some of the generic units presented or just adding more historical flavour.

I loved what Peter did with his take on a italian campaign, but i coudlnt get past some things like having a anti tank unit called "Small Pak", having Storch airplanes as aerial killing machines or having FT-17 tanks in my army, so i been modifying them a bit and adding a few new historical units to the roster.

While i have played quite a bit of Panzer Corps, this is my first serious attempt at modifying the game, so i am usually thinking quite heavily each time i add a new unit and what stats it would have (and how it reflects in the game versus historical reality).

My question to the community (and specially Peter) is... how does the community sees this? While this is more like a personal project to me, i would like to release it someday, but i since this is Peter's baby, i dont want to overstep myself, so... should i contact him? Or is there unwritten rule for modding a mod?

If anyone is curious, heres a log i been keeping of my changes, the items with "***" means are still to be added:

Changes to Italia Victor 3.2 mod:

Changes:

General Changes:

**Add Proper Upgrade lines for vehicles of the same family

Infantry:

-SMG Modello Inf changed to Blackshirts (Camicie Nere).

-Battaglioni renamed to Fanteria Pesante (heavy infantry), since the name "Battaglioni" is already heavily tied with Blackshirts battalions, this is to further make diferences to them.

-Used italian names for the infantry in the same way the original game uses german names for its infantry (Italian Cav renamed to Cavalleria, Italian Bridge renamed to Genio Pontieri, etc)

-Infantry "Full Names" will display their name in english

Tanks:

-FT-17 replaced with the L5/30, italy never used the actual FT tanks, but made their own copies, initially called Fiat 3000, later renamed to L5

-Added the L5/21, with a more anti-infantry focus (still an heavily outdated tank)

-M18/43 (a typo?) renamed to "M16/43", the unofficial name of the prototype for the Carro Armato Celere Sahariano.

-Added the L3/38, the final improvement in the line, getting a slight boost in anti-infantry power (+1 to ground attack and +1 to close defense)

-Most Tanks will have their own upgrade lines, L3/33 to L6/40

Anti Tank:

-The generic "Small Pak" was changed to the Cannone da 65/17, while this was originally a small mobile mountain gun in ww1, by ww2 it got its last use as a anti-tank gun, fitting the early AT role. It will also have a Artillery mode switch, that performs arguably on par with the Mortar unit, only worse due to artillery setup and less movement

-Added the L3/35 cc, the anti tank variation of the L3/35 tankette

Artillery/Anti Tank Guns:

-Adjusted Chassis (M40,M41,M42,M42M,M43 and the prototype M43M) nomeclature to be more historical.

-Ficticious Artillery-only "Semovente da 149/19" changed to "Semovente M42M da 75/34", also added its AT counterpart, which stands in between the the old 75/32 and the newer M43 105/25

NOTE: The Semovente 75/32 never really saw combat and was a prototype that was deemed unfit due to its low powered gun (the adopted 75/34 would be the main production version), but this unit was kept for flavour and balance

***Semovente da 149/40 Will be a artillery only, as its gun was never intended for anti-tank duty
***Add the Somovente M43 76/46, an exclusive tank destroyer

NOTE: With the above 2 future changes, from 1943 onwards, the italian player will have the option between Specialized Self Propelled Artillery, Specialized Anti-Tank/Tank Destroyer or the dual-role vehicle (the M43 105/25), which doesnt excel in either, but does both jobs.

Land Transport:

-SdKfz 251/1(g) Changed to the Fiat 665NM protetto (graphic and name change), the SdKfz was mostly used by post armistice italian forces of the RSI (which were mostly under german command) in 1943, while the Fiat 665NM protetto was used much earlier in the war.

-Generic "Heavypull-early" changed to the Breda TP32(graphic and name change), the main heavy pull tractor for the italian army, which had its innaugural usage in Ethiopia

-Generic "Heavypull-Pak" changed to the Breda TP41(graphic and name change), the later model, used to move the heaviest of italian artilleries.

-British Bren Carriers renamed to the italian copy of the same, Fiat's CVP-4 (Cingoletta 2800), name change only.

-Added SPA Dovunque 35 protetto to the transport list, slightly worse defense, but a slightly better ground attack.

**Possibly add the other prototype Cingoletta (Cingoletta L6/40) as a late game heavy transport with light AT capabilities

Recon:

-Ficticious AB 37 Changed to Fiat Ansaldo 611 (graphic and name change)

-Removed ficticious AB 42, added its firepower improvements to the AB41 (to reflect the change between a dual machinegun vs the addition of a cannon between the AB40 and 41 versions)

-Added the Lancia Lince (avaiable mid to late 1942), so theres still new recon equipment showing up in 42, a fast recon vehicle that was based off the british Damler Dingo

-AB 43 graphic changed to a camoflaged AB 43 (the main paintjob for the 43)

-BA41 changed to the FIAT-SPA Autoprotetto S37 (name and graphic change)

-BA43 changed to Carrozzeria Speciale AS43 (name and graphic change)

NOTE: despite the diferent manufacturer, both vehicles above used the same base of design (the Fiat-SPA TL37) and are thus of the same upgrade line

Fighter Plnes:

-Storch is now a recon plane, good early recon abilities, but horrible in combat.

-Fiat CR.42 is now the CR.32, Added the CR.42 beginning in 1939, its stats are slightly below the french M.S.406.

-Captured M.S.406s will be given only after the battle of france, following the historical capture of this aircraft by germany and its subsequent gift to Italy, thus the M.S.406 have been slightly buffed to be on par with its French Counterpart (previously the italian M.S.406's were inferior)

-Centauro 55b Fighter name changed to Centauro 56 (name change only), the Centauro 55b was a trainer version and not a combat aircraft, while the Centauro 56 was a prototype that, would the war go on into 1944 and later, would have probably seen the light of day, evem the unlock dates already in place favor that idea

Tactical Bombers:

*** Change the IMAM Ro.57 to IMAM Ro.37, improve its stats and add the Ro.57 to a later date, possibly add the Ro.58 prototye to 1943+ as well

Transport Planes:

-Italian Ju 52 replaced with historical Savoia-Marchetti SM.82 (graphic and name change) for general troop and paratrooper transport.

You are free to mod my Mod Italia Victor! V3.2.
You can even re-publish it. Please select then a new mod-name and don’t delete the credits which name me and all the other modders which helped to make this mod.

My focus on mods is not historical accuracy but to generate a balanced interesting game.
And I added a lot of new unit types to offer the player choices.

“Small Pak” is my invention; I needed an early PAK.
FT-17 is a French tank. As far as I know Italy captured a few (and renamed it).
Storch was a German recon plane. It seems I have to change it and may be add another model for replacement.
Yes, the early planes was [IMAM] Ro.37 not Ro.57. In Panzer Corps 2 I already named it Ro.37.
…

Actually I don’t plan a new version for Italia Victor!.
Nevertheless I like the idea to make it more historically, as long no balance problems are generated this way.

Am I allowed to use your changes which fit to my concept in a possible future version?
In this case I would add you in the credits.

Greetings, Peter

Hey! Glad to hear from you! First of all, of course you can use my ideas and directly add them if you want to, since they are mostly taken from the italian wikipedia page about WW2 vehicles, i am mostly just scavaging images from other mods and/or users in the slitherine forums. I am writing my sources so i can properly credit them as needed.

I loved the expanded maps and ideas that you included in your campaign (attacking south africa was awesome) and i noticed that you did made a balanced game, so thats why i am trying my best to not have to add or modify too many units, focusing more on making existing units just have a bit more of a historical flair.

One idea i already included today is changing the italian SMG Modello XX to Blackshirts XX (with appropriate graphic change), with the semi-historical idea that the Blackshirts were more motivated to do daring assaults and thus perform better in soft attack and close defense (the exactly same stats as the current SMG Modello XX units).

Theres a few more ideas i am planning to include, such as the AS37 (not to be confused with the S37) as a replacemente for the ficticious BA43 armored car in late 1943

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPA-Viberti_AS43

(this is an example, but at the bottom there theres all kinds of italian vehicles, way more info than on the english wiki!)

As for the FT-17, while i couldnt find any source on italy capturing them, it seems highly likely that they would have either captured or been gifted such outdated tanks following the fall of france.

However, from what i read, seems that prior to the fall of france, italy had bought exactly 10 FT-17s (3 in 1918 and 7 in 1919), having decided afterwards that it was easier (and cheaper) to develop their own tank based off the FT-17 in the form of the FIAT 3000 Model 21 (later renamed to L5/21 prior to WW2). While they are similar, they are not clones of each other and as the years went on and the Model 30 (L5/30) was introduced and further modifications were done to the project, they became very diferent by the start of the war in ethiopia (albeit they were already very outdated by modern standards). While those 10 FT-17s could have still be in service by 1936, i think its much more historical friendly to use the L5/21 and L5/30s

Heres a few of my sources:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_3000
- https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_3000
- https://www.onthewaymodels.com/articles/FIAT3000.html

I also wanna try to rename those generic AT pieces such as the the "IT 50mm Pak" into something else, but that will require more research on my part, i know theres a variety of "Anti Tank Guns Mounted on a Truck" for the italian army, so maybe something from there, well will see!

Hello br4zil,

we look forward to all mod activities, especially if it includes detailing or new ideas. This supports the unbroken popularity of this game.

Is it also planned to provide the Italian units in their original composition (Inf Reg / Aty Reg) with historically correct unit names such as "Black Shirts" or "24th Infantry Division "Gran Sasso"?

I wish you success for further work!

Thank you br4zil,

as I see you have more historic knowledge then me.
Therefore it makes sense for me using your changes.

Besides balance I want always offer different enemies and all possible unit classes for the player (even if it’s not very historic).
I tried to balance the different unit classes. Originally many users played without AT and AD unit. Even level bombers was not popular.
Therefore I want an early PAK...

Hello everyone, i think i been quite slow on adding new things here, but i have updated the notes in my first post, quite a few new things and some other changes from my original notes.

But to reply to the comments:



I am mostly focusing on just adding new or modify existing core units in Italia Victor mod, but still keeping the original PC "feel", so i dont think i will be making units in that vein of historical authenticity! But i did change the SMG Infantry unit into a "Blackshirt" unit, so in that case, the blackshirts are in! My reasoning for is it is that, unlike the soviets, italy never had exclusive SMG units, so the Blackshirts will be used as the shock close combat troops, due to their perceived better morale on average.

I am not sure if thats what you mean in your question?

But If i ever get into modifying the existing maps, i might rename the Regiments from the non-cores to be more historical.



Oh, i am trying to follow your footsteps on that idea, the "Cannone da 65/17" that replaced the "small pak" has the same stats and is still the basis for the being the earliest AT you get, so thats not truly changed.

The biggest change so far i think is the big break off in 1943, where the player will get a exclusive Tank Destroyer (Somovente M43 76/46), the exclusive artillery (Semovente da 149/40) and the mixed AT/Arty (Semovente da 105/25).

I hope i can finish it up and make a initial version for you guys to take a look! I am still trying to figure out how one creates a new category of transports (i wanted to have a transport specific to the blackshirts).